“I won’t settle nope not a little bit.”

If it sounds like a proclamation it should, and it comes beautifully by way of Emma-Lee, Canadian singer-songwriter on “Where You Want To Be.” Since last time we heard from her she has managed to get exactly where she wants to be. Her debut album, Never Just A Dream, which was given 4/4 stars from the Toronto Star—and also fared quite nicely with Oxyfication—is a brilliant beginning-to-end coming-of-age listening experience that defies genre classification. For the better part of the two years leading up to the recording of Never Just A Dream, however, it seemed as if the reality of it coming to fruition might be in danger. Emma-Lee faced two potentially career-ending-before-it-had-a-chance-to-begin medical hurdles that resulted in two separate surgeries on her vocal chords. At 25-years old, more resilient and determined than ever, recording wrapped on the album in mid-2008 and was released in August. On the album Emma-Lee played the songstress-of-all-trades: writing, singing, co-producing, photographing, promoting, and chief financing the project. The wearing of many different hats is nothing new for Emma-Lee. She runs her own photography business, Stripped Media, and she’s a founding member of the Toronto-based creative-collective, GoodSoundsGood. In a brief moment of downtime Emma-Lee stopped by Oxyfication to answer all things pertaining to Never Just A Dream, from what it felt like to finally finish the album, to what it’s like being the object of affection of the Viagra-popping generation.

 

***

So it’s been over two and a half years since you first spoke with Oxyfication. In our first interview you stated your goal was to record your first full-length album and now on the eve of its August 8^th 2008 official release, Never Just A Dream becomes a full-fledge reality. For starters, has it finally set in yet that you’ve done it, and if so when was that moment? Was it hearing the finished product in the studio, when the disk arrived on your doorstep, or if so/not, what were those moments like?

I think the moment for me was when the vocals were officially done. Before mixing, mastering and packaging, I knew all those things would be done one way or another but because of the surgery, and my nervousness about whether or not I could sing the way I used to, it was a true victory when I had completed that part of the project.

Early response to Never Just A Dream has been extremely positive, including a nomination in the “Best Jazz” category of Toronto’s Independent Music Awards as well as a nod in the Toronto Star’s weekly “Anti-Hit” list of the best-undiscovered musicians. What do these honors feel like? Are they strictly a validation thing for all of the hard work? Are they something you worked towards/hoped for? Or is all of it just an added bonus to accomplishing something that you’ve proud of?

It’s always nice to get a positive reaction from people. You pour your heart into something and at the end of the day I’m very proud of the record, so I guess people enjoying what I’ve done is a bit of a bonus. I’m always grateful for the added exposure though.

What has been your favorite or most fulfilling moment in all of this so far?

For me it’s watching the songs come alive by way of my amazing band. I’m blessed with a lot of talent around me who believe in the project, which is very encouraging. The world is so fast now and everyone is so busy. If someone is willing to lend me their time because they believe in the music, that’s probably the most fulfilling thing about what I do.

Back in 2006 you spoke of making an album that “flows like a story.” The obvious theme of Never Just A Dream would seem to be rooted in heartache, yet there is a strong sense of redemption in songs such as “Flow”, “Isn’t It Obvious”, and “Mr. Buttonlip” that it seems if there’s any real sense of cohesiveness in terms of an overall story it’s of a woman—or person for that matter—who is coming into their own, who feels comfortable in their own skin, as scarred as it may be. Considering some of these songs are years older than others did you still have a cognizant theme in mind when you were putting the album together, are they more a collection of songs that happen to skate in familiar waters, or were they perhaps just the songs that fit best with what you wanted to say?

I would say they are a collection of songs. The three you mentioned are all about one person and play out on the album in order of which they were written: the sadness of the break-up, the trouble that comes from trying to remain friends, and the inevitable angry or “fuck you” song. The rest of the songs on the album are more or less things that took place in the last few years of my life and just sort of “fit”. For a debut album I wanted something that people could put on start to finish, but it is by no means a concept record.

The lyrical content seems to be familiar territory on the album’s first run through, but the lyrics reveal many intricacies on subsequent listens. Possession and the pitfalls of couplehood seem to be a recurring theme– and then comes a song like “Where You Want To Be”, which is on a different plane. With such an economy of words the song floats through some tricky states of mind— there are shades of comfort, tenacity, and disappointment here. Do you approach a song like this by trying to abbreviate a distinct narrative you’ve got in mind, or are you working purely in abstracts that, when paired with the music, evoke a pure mood?

“Where You Want to Be” is sort of an observation on people who are complacent with where they are in life and never chase anything further. I’ve had a few friends who seemed to settle quite early on and never dreamed of anything that wasn’t directly in their reach and I never really understood it. It angers me a bit when people who I know are full of potential or talent, but just sort of give in to being comfortable, even if that means sacrificing a dream.

The song “Flow” has undergone a facelift since its first appearance on The Sneak Peek E.P. Though the melody and spirit of the song remain the same it’s a completely different song. Why did you decide to change the song? Was it strictly a matter of having more at your disposal now than when you initially recorded it? Did the song mature, did the way you sing it perhaps mature, or was this the way you heard it sound in your mind all along?

Definitely the first version of “Flow” was never in my mind “complete”. I think a song can be done a million different ways. That’s what makes music so exciting. A big part of the change in the way it sounds was removing the electric guitar and replacing it with piano for the intro. Tyler Yarema, who plays all of the piano and organ on the album, came into the studio and I told him to just experiment with playing the intro verse a few different ways. When he played this ultra-minimalist take I just knew it was right. He barely knew the song and his intuition was just so bang-on. I think he did maybe three takes of the song and that was the one we (Mitch Girio, my co-producer) and I chose. Vocally, I had definitely improved and matured since the first recording. I’ve laid off the over-done runs that often happen in that genre as I found they often can be distracting from the real message in the music and lyrics. It took me awhile to tune into that. I know now that I don’t have to show off my vocal acrobatics to get my point across.

In terms of the structure of how the songs of Never Just A Dream were laid out the album opens (with “Bruise Easy”) and closes (with “Until We Meet Again”) with a fade in/fade out feel to it giving it a sort of cinematic feel. Was the sequence of the songs something you paid a lot of attention to, or planned out?

Once those songs were written—which coincidentally they were the most recent additions to the album—it made sense for me to open with something really bare. People in the industry will tell you to put your best songs first on an album but I didn’t really care about that. It was more important for me that the first song be intriguing rather than bash people over the head with a hook. It’s short, almost like an intro; it sets a mood. The last song, with its title (“Until We Meet Again”) seemed like a no-brainer to place at the end, and I think it is an equally intriguing way to finish the CD. For my first real “album” I didn’t want to compromise anything. No one is telling me what to do right now so why should I do what is expected by the mainstream? I think the best thing that you can do as an independent artist is to take major advantage of the freedom. At the end of the day it’s my name tacked on to the project so if I don’t feel good about it, it’s going to be hard to promote.

The boys that inspired these songs, have you heard from any of them on how they’ve been immortalized? Is there a line of men already forming to be in the next round of songs? And specifically, with the song “An Older Man”, have you already, or do you expect a harem of Viagra-packing gentlemen to show up at your performances?

[Laughs] A few older men have come a-courtin’, that much is true. As far as the rest, the one who Mr. Buttonlip is about left me a really funny message on my answering machine after receiving the album. It was something along the lines of “Hey…just wanted to tell you that I love your album, particularly Mr. Buttonlip, but I have a feeling it’s about me. If it’s not about me and I’m just being a vain asshole I’m sorry, but let me know because I think I will like it a lot more if it’s about someone else.” I kind of forgot when I gave it to him that there might be some offensive words on there.

The strings added another dimension to the songs giving them a grander yet seemingly more intimate sound. Were strings something that you wanted to work with all along and what was that like, hearing songs you built on the guitar get transformed with classical instruments?

That was one of the most exciting moments in the project. I asked Mike Olsen to do the strings early on as I’d heard a lot of his work, which was amazing. I have a belief that you need to let people just DO what they’re truly good at. So I basically gave the songs to Mike and said, “Write whatever you want”. I know that I do my best work as an artist, whether it be in music or photography, when people just let me do my thing. Rules and restrictions can be suffocating, so I wanted to let the people involved in the CD shine in what they had worked their lives becoming an expert at. The results are just as I expected, and I still get goose bumps when I hear their parts.

In the past two years you were forced to face two separate problems with your vocal chords resulting in two different surgeries. Were there times when the “What if?” and “Why me?” questions started to creep into your head? Or did these roadblocks only strengthen your resolve to get Never Just A Dream completed? What was the hardest part of going through all of this? Have you had to change your approach at all? How has your voice held up since the surgeries?

I’m not a religious person but when a series of unfortunate events occur in your life sometimes you turn to spiritual means to sort them out. Certainly a lot of “what if” and “why me” questions crossed my mind. But I’m not the type of person to just succumb to struggle. I know that there was no fucking way I would have come this far and worked that hard just to roll over. My voice feels the same, if not better than before the surgeries, and I try to appreciate it a lot more.

In the heat of the creative process is it hard—or on Never Just A Dream was it hard—to objectively step back and enjoy what you hear, and moreover enjoy what’s going on? Does it get too familiar at times? Were there/Are there times when you have to step back for a while to allow things an opportunity to remain fresh? When/If ever did you start to hear the “magic” on the album?

I would say I heard the magic right away. After those first sessions recording the bed tracks I was sold. There was a period of time spent not doing any work on the record because of the surgery I had. During that time I played the shit out of what had been done and got to a point where I felt I had listened too much. Then the vocals, strings, and finishing touches were put on and it was exciting again. After a couple weeks listening to it for hours on end during the mixing and mastering stages I was sick of it. I do that with almost every record I love though. I listen to it for every detail until I could recite it to you lick for lick. Once I sent it off to the plant to get manufactured I took a few weeks off and didn’t listen to it once. I think it’s important to spend time away from something so you can appreciate it again later. I listened to it again today actually and still felt really happy about it, so I guess that’s all I can ask for.

In our first interview we talked about the hardships that being an independent artist—in its truest sense—face. Considering that you shouldered the brunt of the load on Never Just A Dream (singer/songwriter/nylon guitar/co-producer/art direction/promoter/chief photographer/glockenspiel/financier/and most importantly, claps & stomps) how difficult has it been it to pull everything together and still maintain the focus, drive, and creative spirit? Do you have a greater sense of accomplishment because you laid so much of yourself on the line? And do you feel like everything up to this point has been how you envisioned it would be?

I think given my resources for completing a project like this I have no complaints and I feel comfortable where I am right now. Many of the singer-songwriters I admire took a long time to really accomplish great things and I’ve always felt like a late bloomer in that sense. I didn’t really start writing songs until four years ago, so I can only hope to learn more every year and become a better writer. At times it’s difficult to maintain a creative spirit when you are mountains in debt, but truthfully my best writing comes from harder times, not when I’m lying on a beach getting a massage in Barcelona. As annoying as they are in the present tense, as long as I tune into those feelings as they’re happening, hopefully [I can] write a song, and they can be good for the spirit.

The sounds of Never Just A Dream meander through many different genres—from jazz, to blues, to pop, to a big-band era show tunes feel—rather seamlessly, and though theory says that good music should conquer all, it seems the music industry from top to bottom is hell bent on compartmentalizing sounds/bands/singers into specific categories, even if they don’t fit, for marketing purposes. The flipside of that—and a freedom perhaps granted to you as an independent singer—seems to be that because the album is so diverse in its sound that it could appeal to a broader base of people. Have you run into any hardships on this level, either trying to describe the album, market the album, or promote the album, or has it been a fairly easy go because of its diversity?

I’ve pretty much come to an acceptance that I am terrible at streamlining—or channeling—my inspiration into any one sound. I listen to way too many different types of music to make a record that is any one particular genre. I mean never-say-never; there might be a top-to-bottom jazz album in me yet, but not anytime soon. I love to explore far too much. I think it’s a lot more acceptable in Indie music to be all over the map. Or it’s simply more common because, again, no one is telling you what to do. As much as I hope that people will listen to this album from start to finish it’s an iPod generation, and people pick favourites and play those. Does it really matter how cohesive something is anymore? I don’t know.

In terms of singles, do you—or with Never Just A Dream specifically did you—consciously think that you’re going to need a single—or singles—to help pull people into the album? Do you write with that in mind? Does something like that maybe develop after the fact? Or is the whole need for a single overblown?

In my world a single isn’t necessary. I’m not making the kind of music that’s going to be played on mainstream commercial radio so I have to go to campus radio. Their format is totally open; DJ’s play whatever songs from the album they want. You can try to get your fans to request particular songs but that doesn’t always have sway. However, if there were a first “single” for the album it would be “That Sinking Feeling”. I’m working on getting funding for a music video for that song right now. I have never tried to write a single, or a “hit song”. I could be completely wrong but I still hold to the idea that the best songs come from true inspiration, not what someone thinks is catchy or “cool”. As soon as I feel like I’m “trying” to find the hook I toss the song. Pretty much all of the hooks I’ve ever come up with I don’t really remember where they came from. They just sort of came out, eventually.

You mention trying to secure funds for a music video of “That Sinking Feeling”. Though internet sites such as YouTube are hugely popular, and have pretty much completely replaced the MTVs and other once video-friendly cable outlets that are now more concerned with reality shows, do you think that music videos still have a pertinent place in music? So many of the popular videos on YouTube seem to be quirky by nature, and though they can go a long way to getting a lot of people to notice you, it seems that fame in that regard can definitely be fleeting. Is your desire to make a music video driven by the chance of exploring another creative medium, is it because you truly believe that there’s still a place for music videos out there, or is it maybe something different? And do you have an idea of what you’d want to do for “That Sinking Feeling” visually to compliment the song?

I believe YouTube is an opportunity to expose a little piece of yourself to the world with a low budget. It’s a good way to connect personally to your fans, but as you said, it’s fleeting. My interest in making a music video isn’t so my mug can be on computer screens across the world as much as it would be the joy of attaching a visual creation to the musical creation. I think there will always be a place for music videos because often the combination of music and film is more memorable than just the song itself and ups the sentimentality a person could feel towards it. I have an idea for the video, but you will just have to wait and see it to know what it is! Completing a music video will definitely be a big check mark off the old “life to-do list”. I’m excited to say the very, very least.

Prior to the release of the album you had a pre-order where people could buy their copy (or copies) of Never Just A Dream in advance. The benefit for you was that it helped raise necessary money. The benefit for them was that they received the album upon its completion ahead of the official release date. Was the pre-sell a success, and what was the overall response. How wide-ranging in location were the people who pre-ordered?

The pre-sale was quite a success. I was surprised and flattered that people were sending me money for an album that hadn’t been recorded yet, and that they hadn’t heard even a tiny sample from. Apparently I have some very kind and supportive friends and fans. I got orders from all over the world.

Both with Indie releases and those from major studios the album booklet and its artwork are often overlooked or passed off with indifference. Perhaps that’s due to the overabundance of people who get their music in mp3 format, or perhaps it’s a way to cut down on cost, but you’ve paid great attention to the artwork and the booklet and the presentation really pays off creating a fuller experience. Was that really important to you and if so, why?

I figure anyone who buys the physical CD is buying it for that exact reason; the experience. If you’re more partial to iTunes you probably don’t give a toss what the liner notes say. So I made the booklet with the idea in mind that the CD was going to go to people who wanted that experience. I love photos; it’s obvious why I got into photography. I’ve always been drawn particularly to the way my favourite bands/musicians were presented in their artwork. There is a quote from Bjork that says:

“The reason I do photographs is to help people understand my music, so it’s very important that I am the same, emotionally, in the photographs as in the music. Most people’s eyes are much better developed than their ears. If they see a certain emotion in the photograph, they’ll understand the music. So instead of having to listen to my album ten times, they’ll get it the first time.”

I guess that explains why I do self-portraits. I can capture myself exactly as I would like to be perceived.

Now that you have your first full-length album under your belt has there been any time to relish in that feeling of “I’ve finally done it”, or is it just a matter of having to move on to the next phase of promoting and selling the album? And does the completion of the album leave you with an added sense of pressure both on yourself and what you expect of the album?

I’ve definitely had my moment to enjoy and say “Ok, it’s done” and I’ve fully moved into promo mode. As far as pressure and my expectations, I feel that I’ve done the best job I possibly could right now and I’m truly happy with the result. If people get it, and like it, that will encourage me to move forward. I look at this record as an introduction to what I’m all about, and I hope it will take me far enough to make another one.

You’ve already performed several dates in advance of the release of Never Just A Dream and have several others lined up in the coming months, including your first mini-foray into the U.S. Ideally the goal would be to tour the album as much as possible in as many different places/counties, but realistically as an Independent musician, what sort of places/cities do you see yourself getting to?

I’ve been playing with a band for most of my career. As much as I would love to take them on the road with me everywhere it’s financially not feasible right now. I’m working on finessing my solo act so I can go anywhere at the drop of a hat. A solo performance is always completely different than with the full band but it should never be thought of as better or worse - just different. Some people have said they love to hear me acoustic because my voice is at the forefront; others love the rhythmic element having a band provides. I like playing with a band for the feeling of sharing music with others on stage, but there is a certain control you get playing alone that you can’t always have with a band. I’ll go wherever people will listen; but I would like to spend more time in Europe, if only for its simpler navigation. Canada is a monster.

In terms of the live show not being any better or worse whether it’s a solo gig or one with a full band, do you feel that all of the songs from ‘Never Just A Dream’ can—and do— translate over to a solo show, or are there some that you reserve for when you have a band?

I personally prefer playing with a full band because that provides me the ability to show an audience exactly how I hear things in my own head. On the flip side, the intimacy and control you have when performing solo is also nice depending on the gig. I believe all of the songs translate to solo, that’s where they started. Not always, but as a general rule I think if it can’t stand-alone with a guitar and a voice it’s probably a dud.

Finally, in closing your last interview with Oxyfication, when asked where you saw yourself in a year’s time you answered, “I predict I will be in the midst of making a full on disco album and working on a completely pretentious coffee table book of nude self portraits.” How are those proclamations coming along, and do you have any insight into a year from this point?

[Laughs] Well, the nude coffee table book and disco album are still in the back of my mind, but I’ve been too busy with NJAD to really let them…flourish In one year from now I hope to have all the material for a new album, and if I have that, I’ll be exactly where I want to be.

***

Order Never Just A Dream here.

Discuss the interview here.

This post is tagged Emma-Lee, Never Just a Dream